Disclaimer: this is an automated transcript. Please don’t call the grammar police on us. You never know, we may have ChatGPT writing our next one…

Asif Choudry (00:05):

Hello, and welcome to anoth episode in the You’re my CommsHero podcast. And I’m your host, Asif Choudry. Today my guest is Luisa Pastore. , Luisa leads communications for the Science-Based Targets Initiative at our S B T I. And they help businesses and financial institutions around the world set ambitious targets to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions in line with science. And previously, , Luisa spent 10 years at Climate Change ngo wrap the organization behind Recycle Now Love, food, hate Waste, and the court hold commitment, voluntary agreement for business. She also managed communications for the Welsh Govnment’s, groundbreaking towards zo waste policy, which actually made Wales’s recycling rate the third highest in the world, , claim to fame the. And in addition to all the climate change and sustainability, Louise’s communications expience spans the range, a range of sectors. And are you, are you ready for this from corpses to cocktails? So, , and plus familiar names including the BBC, Manchest Airport and the Office for National Statistics. And outside the professional life, , Luisa mentors women in leadship and public or political life specializing in confidence building and public speaking skills. She’s also a trained mental health first aid, a lapsed runn, and a wouldbe sup rac or s u p rac. And I’m gonna ask h a little bit about that. So, Luisa, that’s the intro. John, thanks for joining me. It’s great to welcome you on the podcast.

Luisa Pastore (01:38):

Thank you so much. And what an intro. I couldn’t believe that it didn’t even sound like me. , but it’s a huge pleasure to be he. Thank you.

Asif Choudry (01:48):

No, thank you. So what, as I like to do, , I’m gonna get to know you a little bit and our listens will as well. So I’ve got some quick fire questions, but before I get into those, what is a sub rac?

Luisa Pastore (02:03):

Sup is standup paddle boarding, and I’ve been paddle boarding. Hi. Yeah, it’s, it will be, I’ll be paddle. I’ve been paddle boarding for, , six years this year, but I’ve only ev done one race and I’m detmined to do more. So I know that with things like New Year’s resolutions, and I know about behavioral science, says if you, if you want to do something, you need to commit to it and you need to commit publicly. So I’m telling evyone that I’m a, not just would bee a soup rac because I’m detmined to do some more races this year.

Asif Choudry (02:49):

Amazing. A s rac. So you learn something new evy day. And I received your, , bio obviously before we, , get into the recording studio we’re in now. But, , rath than doing what probably most people would do is Google, I thought I’m gonna speak to you anyway, I wanted to ask you. So I’ve just litally found that out, so that’s fascinating. I’ve nev done it before, but I wond how many of our listens also are, , , into s I’m gonna, that’s my new acronym for the day.

Luisa Pastore (03:19):

I would highly recommend it, particularly for communications people. We are always so busy. Sometimes our working life is quite stressful. The is nothing bett than getting out on the wat and relaxing aft work.

Asif Choudry (03:34):

Definitely. I’d agree with that. Osa something for all of us the. So let’s ask you, , Luisa, are you an early ris or do you love a lion?

Luisa Pastore (03:45):

I love a lion, but most of the time I’m an early ris. I have a cat who’s an early ris, so I don’t really have a choice, but during the week, I definitely get up early, get out, try and get some fresh air during the weekend I try and go back to bed for breakfast in bed.

Asif Choudry (04:03):

<laugh> a luxury the. A luxury. So, , do you pref e-books or printed books?

Luisa Pastore (04:12):

Real books evy time, but I have way too many. My house is full, my loft is full. And I have to apologize he to my parents because my dad’s shed, in fact, he’s got two sheds and both of them are mainly full of old books of mine and part of his garage. , they’ve been the for many, many, many years. My dream is I don’t, I don’t want great riches, but I want a house that’s big enough to be able to display all my books. That’s my dream.

Asif Choudry (04:43):

I love that. Absolutely love that. So what, , what kind of is any particular book recommendations for our listens that you’d suggest for that they should go to for 2023?

Luisa Pastore (04:55):

Oh goodness. , you put me on the spot he. The are loads and loads of books that I love. I can’t think of one off the top of my head that I would say is my nb one recommendation for this year. But I’ve just finished reading Michelle Obama’s new book. It wasn’t as good as h, h first one. Okay. It’s a little bit self-helpy for my liking, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. But I love Michelle Obama. I think the Obamas are fantastic. They are brilliant communicators. So I would definitely say that should be on your to-do to read list, maybe not just nb one on the list.

Asif Choudry (05:32):

Okay. And, , final question for you then is, , are you Apple or Android?

Luisa Pastore (05:42):

Do you know? I know most of your guests are Apple, but I’m Android at least at the moment. Hey, <laugh>. , but I’ve actually, I I, I was thinking just the oth day that I’ve just passed the four year mark with my current phone, and I do look for longevity and I’m really, really proud of the fact that I’ve had my phone for four years. I’m slightly worried about saying that because I’m, I’m worried that it’s cursed it and it’ll suddenly give up the ghost. But I always look for, ctainly for phones in oth equipment that will last and keep going. I’m not a believ in trading in and getting a new one evy couple of years.

Asif Choudry (06:17):

Yeah. And we’re gonna be that kind of, , that’s not a, a preempted , scripted segue into our convsation by the way. We’re gonna be talking about sustainability and, , in particular for communications. And the is a thing really isn’t the with that, , sustainability is thrown up that convsation for or or that kind of decision making for many people, should you change your phone evy year? And I’ve seen quite a few people in the com zo community actually say that they don’t know and they’re far more conscious of it. So, , , I dunno how many people would admit to it though. That’s the thing

Luisa Pastore (06:52):

I know, I know the is always that temptation to get new things, but obviously when it comes to sustainability, when it comes to climate change, we all have a responsibility and we can all do something. And it might be something really, really small, but I always try and, , yeah, I try and play my part. I work in climate communications. I would feel really bad if I wen’t doing my own part, playing my own part in making a diffence.

Asif Choudry (07:19):

Yeah. So we’re going to be talking about, , sustainable communications and what it, you know, sustainability, what it means for us as a communications profession and how we should , , kind of go about it. And you are in a really good position to be able to, , help us with this. And whe our connection came from for the listens really is that the S B T I resource itself, you know, we’ve been on a sustainability journey as a manufactur of, of print, , since probably 2013 now. And we’ve, , been carbon balancing and used in FSC ctified paps. And now we’ve gone through, , scope one, two and three emissions, which, , we wanted to get vified by the sbt. I, so I thought, well, what bett way to, you know, we’re involved in this expience, let’s talk to the pson who leads communications for that organization to see why we should be doing this. And that’s kind of led us to whe we are now. So we’ll cov this as we go through some of the questions that I’ve got to ask you, Luisa. But the first one is, what does the Science-Based Targets Initiative actually do?

Luisa Pastore (08:32):

Oh, that’s a great question. And the short answ is that it does what it says on the tid it’s all about science-based targets and they are targets for greenhouse gas emissions. The slightly long vsion is that it develops standards, , that show companies and financial institutions by how much and how quickly they need to cut these emissions to play their own part in tackling climate change. And then when businesses set their targets, we approve or validate those targets against the standards to see if they are ambitious enough, but also to see if they’re achievable. And the great thing about the SBT I is that it was set up by, , the really big cred, probably the most credible organizations in the field, the wwf, the United Nations Global Compact, the World Resources Institute, which is also known as W R I and C D P, along with the we mean Business Coalition. So when it comes to corporate climate action, it’s really seen as the gold standard. And that’s probably why ov 2000 of the world’s biggest world’s highest impact companies have already had their targets validated. And why last year in 2022, we validated more targets than in all our previous years combined. So the previous five years combined.

Asif Choudry (10:18):

Wow, that’s amazing. And I’m pleased that, , in Decemb, 2022 we had our, , scope three, , target, net zo carbon target of 2040, validated by the sbt I as well. And you’ve just mentioned gold standards, so I’m quite tough with that actually. So that’s how our plan, that’s f fantastic needs we do about it. Congratulations. Yeah, no, thank you vy much. And we’re delighted to, , , to be up the with those 2000, , companies across the world. So I, I feel genuinely quite choked up about that. So that’s, that’s amazing. So that’s what spt I, , does. And, , you mentioned, so it, the SBT is an organization based on science and some fairly complex science at times. So how do you go about communicating, which is what we’re hear about, that’s our listens he. How do you go about communicating complex science and what are the challenges to do that?

Luisa Pastore (11:19):

Well, yes, it’s challenging at times to communicate complex science. And I’m not a scientist, but I think like all communicators, like all communicators, , in my care, I’ve got used to communicating about things that I knew nothing about at first. So in the intro you talked about corpses. I worked at the Body World’s exhibition, , whe I had to learn all about these bodies that we presved in plastic. Yeah, I worked at Campari whe I had to learn about cocktails. And you probably knew a little bit more about cocktails than about dead bodies, to be honest with you, <laugh>. But you know, that that’s what we do as communicators, we learn. And at the s b I am really, really lucky to be surrounded by some real expts to learn from people like my colleague Albto, who is one of the co-founds of the SB t i, and he’s like a guru.

Luisa Pastore (12:21):

The is nothing that he does not know about setting science-based targets. And also, I want to shout out my colleague Alex, who is, he’s the finance and opations director. And so he comes from a completely diffent background, but he’s a genius in that he asks those simple questions that evyone’s thinking about but are too embarrassed to ask. So asking questions, he’s absolutely at the key, but I’m going to let you into a secret. It’s not that diffent communicating complex science to any oth communications. So I think the are three things you need to bear in mind. The first is it’s that, so what factor, why does this matt? Why is this a story? And most of the time that’s about putting people at the heart of the stories. What is the impact on people? What, what, what does this really mean? And I think it’s really easy when you’re talking about scientific topics to forget that.

Luisa Pastore (13:25):

But ultimately all of us, all climate communication communicators need to rememb that it’s about people at the end of the day. The second is to undstand your audiences. We have really, really divse audiences at the S B T I. We talk to some people who are absolute expts at the climate science. We talk to oths who aren’t, who are just starting their journey, who work for companies, want to do the right thing, but don’t know what that right thing looks like. We also talk to people all ov the world. We talk to many people. We’re global organizations. So many people in our audience, , don’t have English as a first language. So it’s about undstanding your audiences, making sure that you are giving them what they want, what they need, not always talking at this really high level, really scientific, yes, the’s going to be people who need that, but also recognizing that some people need simple stuff.

Luisa Pastore (14:23):

And finally, if you want people to make, to take action, you’ve got to tell them what you want them to do and make it easy for them. Don’t give people multiple choices. Don’t give people too much information. And I think it’s something that we need to probably do a little bit bett at the S B T I, we’re getting the, but we probably need to do more. But if you want pe people to take action around climate or around anything that sounds complex, it’s about telling them exactly what you need to do and making it easy.

Asif Choudry (15:00):

Now the’s some really sound advice the because we’re doing, as I said, we’ve, we’re going through that process, , ourselves as an organization and having been party to the, , rafts of information that goes into putting togeth your scope one, two, and three emissions. And that’s like, you know, your utility bills, your fuel usage from company vehicles and doing colleague surveys of what their journey commute to work is and how it is and stuff like that. The’s so much data that goes into building up the portfolio of information in ord for that to be validated for you to find out whe you are in, you know, your scope, your emissions, basically. Cuz it’s only until you identify whe you are today and draw a line in the sand, you can actually start to plan, which is what we’re now doing for 2023, which is, okay, we know whe our, our key scope three emissions are now and whe they’re coming from.

Asif Choudry (15:58):

Now our plan is to how do we target that? And that’s what organizations are doing to get to net zo carbon. So we’re on that journey now ourselves and, and it is full of complexity. So we’ve got that challenge, as you’ve mentioned as sbt I have as well on, , keeping the science intnal, which is what we’ve needed to make sure the nbs are factually correct because evyone should absolutely, , you know, aim to avoid greenwashing at all costs. So fact is important in, , has an important part to play to that, play to that. But you don’t have to communicate, as you’ve said, all the rafts of information that are going into creating your emissions reports and things like that. If anybody needs that, it’s available, but it’s probably not something we’re gonna communicate extensively, , to all our customs and, , colleagues and oth stakeholds as well. But it’s available if anybody wants to have a look at those specifics cause it’s all factual information. So the’s definitely, , a lot of complexity in the. But those three key points you’ve mentioned will really help to, , I kind of make it a lot simpl and communications principles that we all live and stand by, as you quite rightly point out, don’t change.

Luisa Pastore (17:18):

I’m a big fan of making things simple. It’s not dbing down. It’s really keep simple, really simple, important to keep things simple at times. And that’s something that I’ve stood by right through my communications care. , many of us get tempted to make things Yeah, way too complex, way too complicated. Most people can only take in a ctain amount of information at one time. Yeah. So the’s no point trying to share huge amounts of info information with people, people, wheth that’s in an intview, wheth that’s in a press release or te wheth that’s in an advt. Just keep it simple and stick to those really, really key points.

Asif Choudry (17:59):

Yeah, absolutely. So the, I mean, climate change itself is such a big problem and the news about it, it, it’s always tends to be negative. , so as a communicator then, is it bett to be realistic about the size of the challenge and the scale of the change needed? Or is it more important to give people hope?

Luisa Pastore (18:22):

That’s, I think that’s a really, really timely question. And I don’t know if you saw, I think it was during cop, the was a cov of the Economist that said something like, I think it said say goodbye to 1.5 degrees. And it was, it was scary, it was trifying and I really didn’t like that. But, you know, we have to be honest, this is a massive problem. It’s the biggest foot problem the world faces is probably the biggest problem that hanity has ev faced. And time is running out really, really quickly. I was reading an article recently, I think it was in The Guardian saying that even if we do evything that is demanded in the pows agreement, so even if we keep, , climate change within, or global heating within catastrophic levels, we’re still going to lose a high proportion of the icebgs. And that, you know, that in itself is catastrophic.

Luisa Pastore (19:22):

So we owe it to the world to be honest about size of the problem. , but when we’re honest about the size of the problem, we also need to give people hope. And the is a brilliant, , CSR and climate communicator, a woman called Hillary Bg, , who I’ve worked with in the past and is absolutely fantastic. , if you have the opportunity to work with h, I would say absolutely go for it. And I rememb h running concession talking about, you know, this the, the size of climate, , the size of the climate problem. And she used a tm that I can’t rememb off the top of my head that it was a scientific tm that said, you know, when the is a problem, which is so big, that seems so insountable, often people hide their head and don’t even try and do anything because it just seems too much.

Luisa Pastore (20:19):

It’s really, really easy to ignore it. It’s, it’s, it’s too much. So we have to avoid that happening. So we have to count the size of the problem and the urgency with hope. And we do that by telling people the is still hope we can still make a diffence. Yes, we absolutely need to act now. Yes, it’s urgent, it’s sious, but we can make a diffence. And that’s why, why I get really irritated sometimes when I see news stories that say, I dunno, 90% of people are doing something bad. Not necessarily a climate story, but, but stories that you read in the news kind of, , calling out the the bad behaviors because that makes a great headline. But we know, again, talking about behavioral science, we know that the way to get people to do the right thing is to tell them that evyone else is doing it.

Luisa Pastore (21:21):

If you tell, if you say evybody’s doing the wrong thing, that sounds like something to do. That sounds like the right thing to do. That if you think about social norming, you need to think about you, you should be talking about all the people who are doing the right thing. And going back to my pre my previous care, my previous role when I worked with the, , at rap, worked on a campaign, , which was Wales’s biggest ev recycling campaign. And it was part of the Recycle Now, , brand. Yeah. And the work that we did around that was all about social norming, all about saying how many people recycle these people do the right thing. So really to smarize, yes, we have to be honest about the size of the problem. We have to give people hope. And one of the ways of doing that is by showing all the people who are doing the right thing, wheth that’s people on your street, people in your country, or in the case of the S B T I businesses in your sector.

Asif Choudry (22:29):

Yeah, no, absolutely. And , , I’m, I’m a hundred pcent with you on evything you’ve said the, Luisa, and, , you know, I’m gonna give a shout out at this point to, , two people who ctainly have I break up the in tms of that, those Giving Hope and Michelle Carville and Gem Gemma Butl, who Ron Canne marketing saved the planet. And I’ll tag them in when we post this out as well, because, you know, their big, hairy, audacious goal as it we, is to, , I think it’s, you know, 10 million communicators, markets across the globe to have them all, , canne marketing save the planet. Absolutely. Because it’s marketing that through consism, et ceta, that has created absolutely this problem. So if we’ve been responsible in creating it, then we can also help to, , to, to save, to save it as well. So the’s a responsibility for communicators to, , to keep that hook because organizations are gonna rely on us to communicate that. And, and it’s important by doing that with that those, , optimistic viewpoints that we tend to have as, as comms people. Anyway, so, , so the’s been a lot of news. , the’s been a lot in the news this year then about greenwashing or last year as we announced, we’re recording in 2023. So, , and evybody’s heard of the tm, but how can communicators avoid accusations of greenwashing?

Luisa Pastore (23:58):

You are right. The was a huge amount in the news in 2022 about greenwashing, and I think we’re going to see even more in 2023. In fact, in January, , I rememb reading a piece, , I think it was in ed, which is E D I E, which is an online journal or a website about environmental issues. And I read a story the that said that seven outta 10 people in the UK don’t believe the green claims from businesses. So obviously greenwashing is an issue for conss, it’s an issue for businesses too. And actually a separate piece of research, a report that came out, I think in the autn from an environmental consultancy called South Pole, they actually said that the opposite is now starting to happen. And the is a phenomenon called green hushing wheby businesses are starting to actually dial down their environmental comp, , their environmental claims because they’re really concned about Yeah. People kind of looking into that. So it’s clear we need to do something about it, and I believe that we as communicators are absolutely pfectly placed to to, to do that. So <affirmative> yeah, let, let’s start with the basics. Yeah.

Luisa Pastore (25:30):

Greenwashing happens when people make claims which are inaccurate, sometimes actually untrue. So again, it’s coming down to the basics. As communicators, we have a responsibility, whatev we’re communicating to make sure that we are being accurate, that we are being honest, that we are being ethical in the way that we work. And in the case of greenwashing and green claims, yes, it can be challenging, it can be confusing. We’ve already talked about the challenges of climate communications, you know, climate science is or can be complicated. , one of the things you can do, , and particularly for listens in the uk, , if you go onto the, I think it’s on the.gov website in Autn 2019, the competition and Markets authority published a report or pap called the Green Claims Code.

Luisa Pastore (26:40):

Yeah. And that helps businesses, companies, organizations, communicators, check that their green claims about products are genuine. And that’s a great resource, and I know about it because in my previous organization, , my colleagues and I, or some of my colleagues and I fed into that piece of work. So that’s incredibly useful for communicators. And secondly, it’s about looking at the science, looking at the evidence. So use evidence, use data, use science to back up your claims. And that means going to, and I’m afraid this, this is going to sound like a plug he, but that does mean going to organizations like the Science-Based Targets Initiative, getting your targets validated. So you can go out the and say, you know, I, I’ve got science-based targets, I’ve got validated science-based targets from the SBT I, and so you can, it gives your customs, your colleagues, your investors, your, you know, potential new colleagues, potentially people who are looking for a job with you, the confidence that you are doing the right thing. And it’s the antidote to greenwashing.

Asif Choudry (28:03):

Absolutely. And, , , the green claims codes, the’s lots of things like that. So great advice for people to go and check that out and absolutely will, we’ll put the link to that in the, , show notes as well. So, you know, the’ll be, the’ll be lots of people who are passionate about, , climate change. To what advice would you give to anyone wanting to move into climate change communications?

Luisa Pastore (28:29):

Before I go onto advice, I think the first thing I would say is congratulations. Because the is no bett job, no more important job, more, no more fulfilling the job than helping save the world. I’d also say congratulations on a second for a second reason. And that is, it is a massively growing area. The was some research at the end of 2022 from pwc, , , I think it’s called the Green Jobs Baromet. And that said that in that in 2022 or in the last year since they started researching this in the last year, the nb of green jobs advtised in the UK had gone up almost threefold.

Asif Choudry (29:30):

Wow.

Luisa Pastore (29:31):

So it’s a hugely growing area. It’s a hugely fulfilling area. And actually, if you are going into the private sector, in many cases it’s a vy well paid area as well. The is so much demand for climate communicators and CSR people and people working in climate at the moment. So well done. It’s a great, great area to go into. Yeah. , but we still need more communi, we need more climate communicators. , and again, the’s no real, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s not a secret. It’s not, it’s not magic climate communications. So we need many of the same skills, , as, as, as oth communication, as oth types of communications, oth types of communicators. , it’s not hugely diffent in that way. And so you don’t also need to be particularly, you know, you don’t need to be a scientist to start out, as I said, I learned on the job.

Luisa Pastore (30:45):

I’ve learned, I’m still learning, I’ve been learning for many years about climate, about environmental communications. So if you are intested in it, you can do it. If you are a communicator and you want to move into climate comms, you can do it. What I would also say is climate coms, the is not just one, it, it’s not just one role or one type of role. It’s really, really divse. So you can communicate complex science and data like we do at the S B T I. , you could be involved in behavior change intventions in cons campaigns. You could be working with local authorities, getting people to recycle more or put their rubbish in the right bin. , you could be working with a brand with a company, so the is so much divsity. So do your homework, do your research, talk to people working in communications, in climate communications, follow your heart if you are intested, the will be something in the climate communications sphe to suit you.

Luisa Pastore (31:59):

And I’m always really happy, , as you said at the beginning, I do, I’m, I’m really intested in mentoring. I do lots of things like that outta work, so I’m always really happy for people to get in touch with me if they’re thinking about making the move to climate communications. And actually, , I’m going to be recruiting lots of people into my team ov the next year anyway, so the, so always keep an eye open on the SB t I website. Some of them will be in the uk, some of them will be elsewhe. , but keep an eye on our website if you’re intested in working with the S B T I and absolutely get in touch regardless of, of whe you’re intested in, in working. Please do feel free to get in touch if you want some advice from me on working in climate coms.

Asif Choudry (32:46):

No, that’s great. And I would encourage, we’re gonna, , , give your details out in the show notes and what have you anyway, and I’d urge evyone to connect with you as I always, , do with our guests on the podcast. And, , ctainly the, you know, we’ve seen a lot of our clients who’ve been, we’ve had to design and, , produce ESG reports and these are people who are working in communications, not specifically in climate change communications. So I think evy organization, , if a comms team hasn’t had the request yet, it’s ctainly coming. So it’s something you need to Absolutely. , you need to be involved with and, and, , and do for sure. So the’s lots of fascinating stuff we’ve coved the. And I wanted to, you know, we’re, we’re talking about the comms community he and the comms ho community. So, , Luisa, why is comms he important to you and would you recommend people working in comms and marketing to be part of it?

Luisa Pastore (33:46):

It’s, it’s so important to me. , and I think the reason why is in the name it’s a community and you know, as communicators, we, we are people people

Asif Choudry (34:05):

Absolutely.

Luisa Pastore (34:05):

We like working with oth people. So particularly ov the past few years, particularly with so many of us working remotely or working in a hybrid mann, particularly for someone like me who works intnationally. So 95% of my time I’m working at my desk at home, I’m not seeing oth people in real life. That community is incredibly important that support that. Yeah, that community. I’m also a massive fan of pe-to-pe learning. And in my team at the moment, we’ve been developing team, , team values and my value that I’m focusing on is expt. And so I’ve been thinking about how we learn and how we gath information in loads of diffent ways. It’s not necessarily about training courses or reading books. And most of the time it’s about learning from our pes and it’s about learning from their successes and learning from failures as well. Absolutely. And I think that’s the oth thing that the community, , that the community offs. So I would hardly recommend it to all communicators.

Asif Choudry (35:17):

No thank you. And it’s really nice to, to hear that as well. Cause you know, we had a, , the was lots of talk, I think it must have been about going back to about 2017. We had a three events, excuse me, that we held through the year and the theme was dare to Fail because we said, well look, we want to hear from speaks who, communicators who will come up to the stage and share some of the failures rath than coming up and sharing those, , glossy shiny case studies of the successes. But tell us what went wrong because we can learn from that as you, as you say. And yes, yes, as a community we should share those failures because it, well, if it helps somebody else not have to go through it, then

Luisa Pastore (35:56):

The failure is so important. I completely agree with that.

Asif Choudry (36:00):

Absolutely. So Luisa, as I mentioned, you know, I want the conct of listens, they will have enjoyed the intview, this, this recording and this episode and I want them to connect with you. So whe will they find you?

Luisa Pastore (36:13):

They can find me on the Science Based Targets Initiative website. , you can contact me via that, which is science-based targets.org. And on social, probably the best place place to find me is on LinkedIn. And I’m going to spell this out cause I’ve got an odd spelled spell, an oddly spelled name. So it’s L U I s a, Luisa no, o l u i s a. And then on LinkedIn and the’s a hyphen and then p a s t o r e.

Asif Choudry (36:55):

Excellent. And we’ll conclude that in the show notes as well. Anyway, so genuinely Louis has given an open invitation to connect. So bombard h, , LinkedIn inbox with connection requests and that’s not open to recruits and tech sales people who we seem to be bombarded by, , constantly. Anyway, so, , apologies I didn’t mean to offend any of those salespeople. I mean sales myself. But, , , but yeah, I’m sure we’ve all been the with that. So, , you’ll find this podcast on Spotify, apple and on our website coms ho.com. And you can follow us on Twitt at Coms Ho. And if you are, do listen on Spotify and Apple, please leave a rating and review. And if you’re up for being a guest and burning passion, talk about a comms related subject and dropps a line and eith myself, , on Twitt at Asif childry or LinkedIn. And, , the’s a contactors field on the Comms Zo webpage. , get in touch and you too could be a guest on the podcast as well. So Louise, it’s been absolutely fascinating and thanks vy much for sharing just some little snippets of your vast insight into, , climate change communications.

Luisa Pastore (38:06):

Thank you so much. It’s been an asbsolute pleasure.